Using POD HD500 in a 4CM Setup
Over the last few days I've been trying out the HD500 set up in the four cable method which I used to use with my Line 6 M13.
I thought that way I could make use of my Bugera's pre-amp when I wanted to rather than the modelling and also bung my Blackstar HT-Dual into the mix too.
At first I couldn't quite get it to sound as good as the M13 did but some trial and error has got things sorted out. Hence my post - for anyone else trying to set up a HD500 to do the same (one caveat being I'm going to continue assuming you've got a regular serial FX loop without a line/stomp switch).
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I'll assume you know how to set up the four cables for the four cable method. There are a couple of hardware switches you need to set the HD500 to.
Firstly the 1/4" out switch should be set to line. The output switch for the HD500's FX loop should also be set to line. And within the POD's settings you need to set the output to either combo power amp or stack power amp. You'll also need to make sure you create a patch with an FX Loop block enabled. When using a HD500 like this you should have its master volume on full.
I set a patch up like that in a new playlist I named 4CM, calling the preset "Empty 4CM". I can then copy it to any other preset position before creating new settings.
Now as things stand this setup won't exactly sound any good. And that's what I've been struggling with. Until a lightbulb went off in my head. The problem is that you want/need a line signal to the power amp, but you want a stomp level signal fed to the pre-amp. With these settings the HD500 is going to be sending a line signal to both - and the result is a less than pleasing lack of dynamics and richness in the pre-amp tone.
This is actually pretty easy to solve. You just need to go into the setting on the HD500's FX Loop block. On the send setting you just reduce the send level by 7-10db. I tried 10db at first and it sounded crap through my Bugera V22. I finally settled on 7db as the setting that made my amp sound like I didn't have the HD500 connected to it (which is what we're trying to achieve before adding FX).
The result is that any effect in your HD500 before the loop is sent to the physical amp pre-amp at stomp level, but anything that appears in the amp's FX Loop runs at line level.
Now I don't necessarily want to use this setup when using the HD500 modelling. This 4CM setup is just for when I want to make full use of my amp, I also added my HT-Dual between the HD and the amp, and it sounds great with stacking drives from the HD500 into the HT-Dual.
Now for when I just want to run with the modelling into the power amp I've found I don't actually have to make any changes to the cables at all. I can leave it all set up.
I just switch to the playlist with all my modelling patches and these automatically cut out my Bugera's pre-amp because they don't have the HD500's FX Loop in use. The output of the HD500 is already running straight into the Bugera's poweramp. There's one thing to be careful of when doing this though. Some amps have their FX return AFTER the master volume, which means all of a sudden the HD500's master volume becomes the master of the amp too. So best to turn it right down before switching to a simple HD500 > power amp patch.
Hope that helps any of you trying to make use of the HD500 with real amps and the 4CM.
| Print article | This entry was posted by Harry on 07/12/10 at 20:45 . Follow any responses to this post through RSS 2.0. |
23/12/10 @ 00:10
I use 4cm with my X3L, I sold it, and was thinking on getting an HD500, after I saw the HD400 function of FX only (which turns off amp models) and also the FX loop footswitch, which is an extra slot on theHD500. Should be better for all the people using 4CM and tube amps, (not interested in the amp models) to get the HD400?
23/12/10 @ 00:13
Hi, thanks for the question. Even if you use a slot for the FX Loop on the HD500 you still have as many slots still available than the HD400. The difference between the two is that the HD500 gives you more freedom, so you can use a slot for the FX Loop or for something else. Where in the HD500 that portion of the processor is always dedicated to the loop.
03/01/11 @ 22:06
Great tutorial of the 4 cable setup.
I have the POD500 and a Bugera 333.
One question how do you set up the effect loop on the Bugera, i got the best sound with the return at min and send at max.
And when changing to amp on the back of the 500 I get less hizz on the amp.
It also depends on if I engage the effect loop on the amp.
04/01/11 @ 15:59
Hi. Not sure about setting up the loop of the 333, as I only have the V22 (and now a Blachstar HT20) and they don't have much in the way of complicated loop controls.
It's actually easier on the Blackstar amp thanks to the stomp/line level switch for the FX loop. I can just leave the HD500 set to stomp and then don't have to alter any send/receive levels. If the 333 has the option of stomp level for the FX loop then setting things up is much easier.
07/01/11 @ 14:23
I have a serial line level loop on mine.
So it should be as you say line level with cut db.
When using this way I also found out that you can use it like a sort of power soak.
You can push up the amp to get that tube sound and cut on the 500 output signal.
11/01/11 @ 11:02
How do you set the loop levels on the Amp, On the 333 the send and return has max 0db min -10db
11/01/11 @ 12:23
On the Blackstar there's a switch on the back that switches between 4db AND 10db.
25/01/12 @ 05:51
Nice article. I have a Orange TH30 and unfortunately the volumes (one for each channel) are before the fx loop. This really does suck as I was hoping to be able to switch patches mid set for a different sound with minimal fuss. The other thing is, when I try and use the HD500 for the amp models, placing the master volume on the HD 500 as explained above, I simply can't get the same amount of volume from the setup. As in the lack of volume makes it completely unusable. Bummer...
If your master volume is after the loop, the HD 500 would be a killer piece of kit with the 4cm thats for sure.